Curse

DarkNecrid · Jul 19, 2008, 08:59 PM // 20:59

If you've played it: good, go play it again, you know you were going to anyways.
If you haven't: prepare to learn about how an amazing RPG that every other one can learn from, and then go buy it. Now.

Planescape: Torment is a computer Role Playing Game released on December 12th, 1999 by Black Isle Studios.

It is a Dungeons & Dragons game, using AD&D rules, since Planescape is an AD&D universe.

Don't let that turn you off, you need to know absolutely nothing about AD&D to get this game.

So what makes it special?

Quite a few things.

You play "The Nameless One", an immortal who has died so many times he has forgotten his name. You have recently died, and awaken in a mortuary as the deaders (Zombies) are processing your body, but alas, you awaken. Armed with only a dagger, you have lost your memory again. Confused, a flying skull (a Mirmir - the equivalent of a talking encyclopedia) named Morte comes over to you. Morte is badass. He hits on female zombies! He makes sexual innuendo jokes! He cusses at his enemies to piss them off! He is badass, and he bites his enemies too!

Eventually, you escape the mortuary, with one purpose: become mortal again.

And that is where the game is different from most RPGs...it is heavily story based. Be prepare to read lots of text, but this is a good thing - the story is engaging, and interesting. The lore of the world is intense, from everything possibly being a portal to anywhere, the concept of "consensus reality": what a majority of people believe is true (in fact, you actually get the chance to will a person into existence in the game by forcing people to believe he exists), the actual detail to the story (there is close to a million words in it, enough for like 1 volume of the encyclopedia britanica), interesting DEEP characters, etc. Additional party members include a computer with a crossbow, a guy with a sword that changes with his emotions that you can talk to and understand more about his people, a succubus, the human torch, etc.

All of these characters have problems, things they enjoy, and have story arcs that sometimes interconnect, keep going (and never end), or end. They change over the course of the game very well.

TNO's immortality is sometimes used in puzzles as well.

The game contains stellar voice acting.

It uses the Infinity Engine, used in Baldur's Gate 1. It looks pretty old (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...start-room.jpg) but is still very good.

The story's climax can end many ways, and in the end will leave you thinking with an actual underlying philosophical idea, it actually makes you think.

Combat does happen, but can be avoided. (In fact, you can play the entire game without ever fighting, if you play your cards right.)

The universe is PRETTY interesting. You can go into a brothel, theres a wall that is pregnant, the goddess known as the Lady of Pain is something you have to watch out for, etc.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=mgqX82-HRYE here's the Intro Movie.

The game is not very common anymore, so try to find it anyway you can! I recommend the 2CD version, since it has bug fixes etc, and doesn't need a patch.

It won a lot of awards in reviews too!

You can talk about it here.

I'm actually replaying it for the 10th time...

The Red Messenger · Jul 19, 2008, 11:41 PM // 23:41

sounds entertaining, but the fact you can avoid 100% of the combat turns me off. one of the main things i like about RPG's is character development thru combat, and finding spots that are too difficult and returning later to kill stuff

Snograt · Jul 20, 2008, 01:11 AM // 01:11

You don't have to avoid combat - you can go total Leeroy and experience the game from that angle too!

I totally agree with DarkNecrid: Planescape:Torment is the absolute epitome of a computer-based RPG.

Nevin · Jul 20, 2008, 01:13 AM // 01:13

I enjoyed Baldur's Gate I & II more then planescape, thats because Bioware uses an altered form of the D&D rules.

Anarkii · Jul 20, 2008, 02:16 AM // 02:16

Torment is #2 on my list after BG2(BG1 was good without being great, for me). But anyway, I agree with the premise of this thread that if you are a gamer, go play it. It's like reading a novel and watching a movie and playing a game all at the same time.

After you finish playing it, you'll start wondering why developers don't make more of such games instead of 'kill 30 rats' so-called-RPGs.

Also on a partially related note, if you like(d) PS:T, try
BG1, BG2 (and expansion)
Icewind Dale 1,2 (like BG, with less side quests/interaction and more focus on combat)
NWN 2: Mask of the Betrayer
The Witcher (not a party RPG, but the best storydriven RPG this decade)

Winterclaw · Jul 20, 2008, 02:21 AM // 02:21

What Nevin said.

PS:T story wasn't that great to me, didn't like the romantic interests all that much, the ending sucked because nothing you did could really change things which makes the cool alignment system pointless, and to be honest that floating skull and FFG were freaky.

BG:I&II were better had had a great story if you didn't read the lame books. It also wasn't overly zoomed in. Mass Effect and Kotor (up until just before the end) had better stories, as did FFVI, VII, X, and Xenosaga. The elder scrolls games were better in terms of being open and free form.

To me, PS:T doesn't really rank up there.

Steps_Descending · Jul 20, 2008, 02:26 AM // 02:26

An amazing great it is, me friend!
But should you enter it, beware!

/end RP
If Necrid did not stress it enough or if like me you half-read what he said, that game is a Role Playing Game, using PRG would not give it the respect it deserves (Ok sorry I entered RP mode again). Play that game as a book, not a game.

talking about that, I should find it again and actually finish it.

Sab · Jul 20, 2008, 03:39 AM // 03:39

If you want to be engaged in an imaginative storyline, some of the deepest characters and the most well-written dialog, play Planescape.

DarkNecrid · Jul 20, 2008, 06:11 AM // 06:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Red Messenger

sounds entertaining, but the fact you can avoid 100% of the combat turns me off. one of the main things i like about RPG's is character development thru combat, and finding spots that are too difficult and returning later to kill stuff

mmm I said you could. In order to go through the game without fighting, you basically have to have the right stats at all times, know what those stats are, know the exact dialogue options, etc. Basically you have to plan for it. More of a challenge. It's pretty easy to go through it with just 2 or so fights, but the average player is going to do a lot of killing, and the combat system is fun. There is a lot of cool spells (Missile of Patience. It looks like it sucks at first, but if you use it the right way it basically out does a ton of spells, a spell which causes the Rune of Torment to appear and explode, spells with CGI cutscenes, etc.) and the combat part is no joke. If you like combat, you'll get it here. There is a few instances (optional) of stuff like you mentioned, but it isn't a focus because the game isn't really about the statistically character development, but about the role you are playing, like it should be!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

What Nevin said.

PS:T story wasn't that great to me, didn't like the romantic interests all that much, the ending sucked because nothing you did could really change things which makes the cool alignment system pointless, and to be honest that floating skull and FFG were freaky.

BG:I&II were better had had a great story if you didn't read the lame books. It also wasn't overly zoomed in. Mass Effect and Kotor (up until just before the end) had better stories, as did FFVI, VII, X, and Xenosaga. The elder scrolls games were better in terms of being open and free form.

To me, PS:T doesn't really rank up there.

You're kidding me.

Final Fantasy 7?

I can let BG1/2 go by, I can barely let KOTOR go by (since you mentioned the ending), I can let Mass Effect go by, I'll pretend you didn't say Xenosaga...but Final Fantasy 7?

That game had a laughable story. The character's have no depth. The character's change in a completely predictable way. They use several "rape the dog" moments just to make Sephiroth look more badass, that add nothing to his character except MORE BADASS.

Please.

The entire point of the story is *SPOILERS AHEAD DONT READ IF YOU HAVENT PLAYED*

that in the end your efforts are futile. It wasn't about the romantic interests (save Deionarra), it wasn't about the alignment system (which was just the AD&D one fyi. It served its purpose with the factions.), it was ultimately about how RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOed The Nameless One is. Regardless of what he does, he is screwed. His fate is locked in. The Planescape world is fairly dark and almost gritty in a way, and the ending serves the purpose that not only closes the story, but keeps your wondering what the poor man's journey is going to be for the rest of his life. It is the inevitability of fate...destiny. The first TNO tried VERY VERY VERY hard to not wind up in the Blood War, and yet no matter how hard he tries he is pulled that way.

As humans, we die. That's obvious. The idea of immortality is one that I think a lot of us dream about, and yet TNO as an immortal had a terrible life. Amnesia. He has nothing because of it. And the worst part is, one of incarnations told Deionarra he would be back for her (even though he didn't like her at all and had no intent too, and basically saw her die), and in the end, you leave her alone regardless without really caring. You're a huge dick. And that's why the story is better, there is a lot of these moments for every character, but they aren't rape the dog moments. They truly come across as "this character is bad in some way" without having to destroy 500000 towns to look badass.

Just as the story is about inevitability of fate, however, it was indeed about torment (as the title suggests), and immortality. As I said above, a lot of us dream about being immortal - yet we don't think of the consequences. TNO effectively has no life, has touched a lot of people but doesn't really remember it, and just wants to be normal again. It's understandable: his life sucks. A homeless man in our world has a better life than this guy. Being immortal sucks when you want to die, after all. He's seen people he liked grow old and wither and die. He's forgotten about the rest...

And yet, in the end, you find out that being immortal was how he prevented himself from going into the Blood War. It was futility at its best. Stay immortal and live a terrible life, or become mortal and live an even worse life.

****END SPOILERS *****

They don't really compare, and somehow I think you missed parts of it, didn't really get everything, didn't explore all your possible options, or didn't care, which is kinda sad. Planescape: Torment is the Watchmen of RPGs. The best. It isn't about the combat (though you can find it), it isn't about the flashy features (OMG ALIGNMENT SYSTEM!1!!!1!!!1!!1...which btw I almost find to be a troll in some ways, because it doesn't mean anything towards the ending (like it shouldn't for this type of game and the meaning of it all.), and they never advertised it either. A troll of what was to come from every game that has an alignment system soon after....), or the character development from combat (tho you have it), or the silly romantic interests (which you could never really finish), or anything. It is about the story, and there is a lot of story there. There is a lot of stuff to miss, and I guarantee there is stuff even I haven't seen yet, and I'm on my 10th playthru having played every class as every alignment. There's a ton of depth and information there, but you have to know what the game is about in the first place, stop comparing it to bad/average/other/not even close to a similar focus games, and take it for what it is: not anything like any other game out there on the market now.

Sleeper Service · Jul 20, 2008, 08:23 AM // 08:23

jagged alliance 2 , fallout 2, Arcanum or Deus Ex i enjoyed more than Ps:T.

Ps:T is good but like someone mentioned it "plays" more like a book, and if i want that kind of adventure id much rather play monkey island , day of the tentacle , kings quest...

Im sorry your so blinded by Jrpg hate and Ps:T fanboyism to properly read into xenosaga and FF7 but there is a reason why people played those games to death even if you dont like them.

dont get me wrong Ps:T is a great game however the only thing that kept me playing it was the story/characters, I found the combat system horrible though.

DarkNecrid · Jul 20, 2008, 08:31 AM // 08:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeper Service

jagged alliance 2 , fallout 2, Arcanum or Deus Ex i enjoyed more than Ps:T.

Ps:T is good but like someone mentioned it "plays" more like a book, and if i want that kind of adventure id much rather play monkey island , day of the tentacle , kings quest...

Im sorry your so blinded by Jrpg hate and Ps:T fanboyism to properly read into xenosaga and FF7 but there is a reason why people played those games to death even if you dont like them.

dont get me wrong Ps:T is a great game however the only thing that kept me playing it was the story/characters, I found the combat system horrible though.

a) I don't hate jRPGs. (nice assumption though. I'm actually a big fan of Star Ocean (SO1 and SO2 only), the Tales series, BoF series, and I am actually a Final Fantasy fan as well.)
b) I'm not a fanboy. I accept the faults of the game.
c) That's good, because that is what the game is about! It's an RPG, the combat should be secondary to the characters and story.
d) most people think FF7 is good because they played it when they were young and just think it is good for nostalgic purposes. The numerous (and awfully predictable) rape the dog moments are just bad. For a jRPG it is decent, but that's about it. The story was pretty terrible, and the characters uninteresting, easily fitting common archetypes with no variation or deviation from them.

I'm just not a FF7 fanboy.

EDIT:
Also JA2, F2, and Arcanum all own.

I don't really consider Deus Ex an RPG. It's just an FPS with RPG elements (the character development thru combat etc, systems.)

Sleeper Service · Jul 20, 2008, 09:06 AM // 09:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

a) I don't hate jRPGs. (nice assumption though. I'm actually a big fan of Star Ocean (SO1 and SO2 only), the Tales series, BoF series, and I am actually a Final Fantasy fan as well.)
b) I'm not a fanboy. I accept the faults of the game.
c) That's good, because that is what the game is about! It's an RPG, the combat should be secondary to the characters and story.
d) most people think FF7 is good because they played it when they were young and just think it is good for nostalgic purposes. The numerous (and awfully predictable) rape the dog moments are just bad. For a jRPG it is decent, but that's about it. The story was pretty terrible, and the characters uninteresting, easily fitting common archetypes with no variation or deviation from them.

I'm just not a FF7 fanboy.

EDIT:
Also JA2, F2, and Arcanum all own.

I don't really consider Deus Ex an RPG. It's just an FPS with RPG elements (the character development thru combat etc, systems.)

ok sorry i assumed that then (theres so much of that on this forum guess ive gotten used to it).

fair enough, each to their own. personally i enjoyed all of the above and as far as FF7 is concerned i enjoyed it for the very same reasons you dislike it (I thought the story was pretty cool and that that characters fitted the universe, so what if they are stereotypical? its done well).

For me Deus Ex is an RPG no question about it, not correctly developing your character correctly and using those characteristics accordingly to resolve the problems one encountered resulted in failure. It just happens to be that it uses an FPS hybrid type combat system.

no offense but the the thread title has doomed it to flame central...

DarkNecrid · Jul 20, 2008, 09:15 AM // 09:15

Quote:

no offense but the the thread title has doomed it to flame central...

Only if you take the obvious opinion thrown in there seriously.

zwei2stein · Jul 20, 2008, 09:17 AM // 09:17

I guess most people who dont "get" awesomenes of P:T are put off by tons of dialog and lack of combat, and mistake "deepness" in RPGs for "munchkin-readiness" and "standard fantasy(/standard character development) compliance".

People should approach this as book. It's awesome that way. Or as nomal RPG (you know, non-computer one). Just throw away any preconception on this genre you might have learned by playing elves&dwarves CRPGs

Also, if you want other great games, try Betrayal At Krondor.

DarkNecrid · Jul 20, 2008, 09:24 AM // 09:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

I guess most people who dont "get" awesomenes of P:T are put off by tons of dialog and lack of combat, and mistake "deepness" in RPGs for "munchkin-readiness" and "standard fantasy(/standard character development) compliance".

People should approach this as book. It's awesome that way. Or as nomal RPG (you know, non-computer one). Just throw away any preconception on this genre you might have learned by playing elves&dwarves CRPGs

Also, if you want other great games, try Betrayal At Krondor.

yes yes yes yes yes

someone who knows the greatness known as BaK I thought I was the only one <3. Also Anachronox is damn good too 8).

++rep.

Also I agree, a lot of people here who are saying bad things about it don't really seem to get the point of a role playing game in general. It's for the story...most RPGs should play like interactive books, yet most don't. They play like action games with a lot of numbers and a very bad story tacked on. Most of them are even "on-the-rails" adventures, and that's pretty boring. I love the multitude of options PT gives you. The actual depth to the characters. In fact, I challenge anyone defending Final Fantasy 7 to show me the depth to either Cloud or Sephiroth. As the main protagonist and antagonist, they should ideally have the most depth to be a good story. Show me how "deep" these characters really are, and I'll show you how deep a non-main character in Planescape: Torment is. (heaven forbid if I did The Nameless One).

Also I've always been a big fan of the opening line to this game.

"It feels like I've been strained through somebody's bowels."

That sorta sets the mood for everything right then and there. Also the old English slang is awesome too. Berk, etc. I love that stuff, it's neat.

Abedeus · Jul 20, 2008, 09:55 AM // 09:55

Quote:

NWN 2: Mask of the Betrayer

What are you mad? NwN 2 is the worst game that uses Neverwinter and Nights in the title... Even if expansion is better, it's not worth buying nwn 2 just for it. And I'm an nwn fanboy.

Btw, anyone knows about Old Games or something like that? It's an online shop/company that will be selling old games like Sacrifice, Fallouts and probably Planescape. Hopefully, I will be able to try it out after so many years...

Anarkii · Jul 20, 2008, 01:17 PM // 13:17

NWN2 is terrible but Mask of the Betrayer redeems it in every way. It's the best out of all the NWN 1 & 2 chapters.

Giga Strike · Jul 20, 2008, 01:41 PM // 13:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

Morte is badass. He hits on female zombies! He makes sexual innuendo jokes! He cusses at his enemies to piss them off! He is badass, and he bites his enemies too!

I'm a little worried about this part.

DarkNecrid · Jul 20, 2008, 02:38 PM // 14:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giga Strike

I'm a little worried about this part.

Well, note it's sexual innuendo jokes using their slang, and there isn't many of them. He does more normal jokes than anything. It was rated T for Teen for the ESRB so there is nothing overly crude or terrible.

zwei2stein · Jul 20, 2008, 02:58 PM // 14:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giga Strike

I'm a little worried about this part.

You should be more worried about what happens if you hire hooker to take care of his ... urges.

He was most satisfied with half human half demon one